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Fixed income roundtable discussion

In the lower-for-longer monetary policy dominated world, how should investors approach investing in fixed income? Should it be from a top-down or bottom-up perspective?

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In the lower-for-longer monetary policy dominated world, how should investors approach investing in fixed income? Should it be from a top-down or bottom-up perspective?

In the lower-for-longer monetary policy dominated world, how should investors approach investing in fixed income? Should it be from a top-down or bottom-up perspective?

Peter Martin:  I lean more to a multi-asset approach with a bottom-up stock selection. This should be done in the context of a top-down overview, just to make sure the risks are managed and that you look at it holistically. It’s about trying to generate some return from somewhere in a sensible risk fashion; I am wary of people pushing the envelope and taking the risk too far in the lower-for-longer tight credit spread environment. Andres Sanchez Balcazar: The macro drivers are far more important at the moment than the bottom-up; you need to be very, very careful about the type of macro risks that you take. It would be more towards an 80% top-down and at best 20% bottom-up view, in the sense that refinancing is very available for maintaining idiosyncratic risk in credit. Default rates are very low and so the differentiation in returns that you’re likely to obtain in your security selection bucket is very little, whereas your portfolio can be subject to a number of macro forces. If you just focus too much on the bottom-up then you are going to be run over by the volatility. Edward Farley: Obviously, macro is a key driver. However, with corporate spreads across the board much tighter than they were, this is an environment where detailed bottom-up analysis is critical. There are all sorts of pitfalls within individual names, where just relying on the top-down view could lead to holding some issues that may blow-up. Martin: The more you get in to areas which people are less familiar with, such as emerging market credit, then the bottomup is very important. But you still need to be aware of what the US Treasuries curve is doing and how that would impact in terms of the tactical strategic allocations to these markets. Salman Ahmed: The central banks’ usage of fixed income as a policy tool is unprecedented. During the Great Depression the lowest yields were 2.5% in the US and the economic fundamentals were way worse than what we have encountered over the last 10 years. And now there is a strong geopolitical influence as well. Also due to regulations, banks are unable to provide liquidity, which has huge implications for portfolio management. So in fixed income markets usage of market cap benchmarks are heavily challenged in this environment because you can’t get in and out as quickly as you used to before. Martin: The market cap benchmarks are very much unconstrained and Libor-plus approaches are how you get the best ideas to get the best risk-adjusted return. People are perhaps not abandoning those market cap benchmarks but they’ll become less important over time. You just have to work harder and smarter to get returns and to embrace new areas. These days there’s much more product in distress, opportunistic credit. As these things are looking to fund quite quickly, so you need the understanding to get the money quickly enough. Investors all of a sudden can afford to be lenders, direct or otherwise and syndicated. You have to embrace new language like trade finance or regulatory capital which sounds scary at first but when you understand it, is quite helpful. Ben Shaw: From my experience there are quite a lot of niche bond-like instruments you can buy. We’re quite a small scheme relatively, so to buy a couple of million, five million of something actually can turn the needle and be worthwhile, whereas if you’re a billion pound scheme it’s not going to do that. Kate Hollis: That’s when you’ve got to be really careful about people reaching too far for yield, particularly in private markets. You have so much less transparency on what’s going on and you could have a strategy which does beautifully for a couple of years and then suddenly blows up, because the fund manager is taking on too much money and reaching too far to allocate the capital. Christine Farquhar: But do investors really think about fixed income as lending money and thinking about, “We’re going to hold this until it matures”? Part of the problem is investors regard high quality fixed income as a cash machine, an ATM. “Yes I’ll put it in that government bond fund but if I need cash, I’ll just take it out tomorrow”. Shaw: As a pension scheme only five to 10% of your liabilities crystallise in any one year in a worst case scenario and therefore you can afford to lock up chunks of capital. Quite often a bond fund might be one of those areas where you don’t need to lock it up because that’s your area of liquidity or if you’ve got equities, equities can be your liquidity. Martin: But again, it’s what you’re using that bond money for. If you need bonds to be liquid – if you have a collateral call, if rates do rise – then you need those monies to be obtained. Ahmed: But what is cash equivalent fixed income now? Due to the Basel III liquidity coverage ratio, banks will be forced to hold more sovereign debt and the ECB is holding more than 30% of German outstanding debt; it’s going to be 35%, it’s going to be locked on their balance sheet. This is not investor-based locking, this is regulatory non-investor based locking and a significant chunk of the free float is out of the market. So the question is what is cash now? Because the flexibility between bond and cash is broken. Because the repo market volumes in German debt is collapsing at the moment so if we think, “Oh I have this bond and I’m going to go and repo it in the market and get cash” there is a problem because that market may collapse. Farqhuar: And in the old days liquidity in bond markets was, “I’ll sell the bond”. Nobody says that now, it’s repo, it’s borrowing.

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Fixed income roundtable discussion

In conversation with: Jonathan Platt, Sebastian Cheek, Pete Drewienkiewicz, Mark Cernicky, Ben Shaw, Joe Abrams, David Greene and Christine Farquhar

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In conversation with: Jonathan Platt, Sebastian Cheek, Pete Drewienkiewicz, Mark Cernicky, Ben Shaw, Joe Abrams, David Greene and Christine Farquhar

In conversation with: Jonathan Platt, Sebastian Cheek, Pete Drewienkiewicz, Mark Cernicky, Ben Shaw, Joe Abrams, David Greene and Christine Farquhar

We’ve had one of the worst starts to the year since 2000. Risk aversion and investor nervousness have led to broad-based weakness across equity markets globally and the outlook for fixed income isn’t particularly great either. So, which areas of fixed income will appeal to institutional investors? Where should they be looking?

Ben Shaw: Given the likely rise in interest rates and where yields are, what you want to try to be doing is moving away from the traditional market, to where you can get debt opportunities as an off-market, at fixed yields, that are very attractive. That’s available from unusual financing, such as peer-to-peer lending. We’re getting easily double-digit returns for institutional investors taking first and second charge on property and other slightly more unusual assets, such as cars and aircraft. If you choose the right alternatives- you’re going to get the best risk-return in this kind of market.

Jonathan Platt: The outlook for fixed income markets really depends on your macro view; given my relatively upbeat macroeconomic views, I don’t think the outlook is good. However, it could be argued that we’re in, in effect, the end of the recovery period which started in 2009. The worry is that the central bank has basically used up a lot of ammunition, and this is the late part of the cycle. A more deflationary view of the world would support fixed income markets.

Pete Drewienkiewicz: It depends how late-cycle you think we are. If we are in the twilight of the credit cycle, we might muddle through for another couple of years. Then it’s possible to create quite a positive story for quite a wide range of fixed incomes. But if we are about to lurch back into recession, that’s a different story.

David Greene: To me, the risks are asymmetric. Even if you get an unfavourable – or deflationary – backdrop, the kind of potential returns you’re going to get from your traditional fixed income classes are going to be limited. General fixed income might make 2% to 4%, but there’s the potential you could lose 3% to 5% if interest rates do rise. In that environment, you want to be a little bit duration agnostic, if you can. You don’t want to be betting too much on that style of management. Moving away from benchmark-constrained management towards absolute return, or multi-credit type or even alternative type investments is a good step.

Joe Abrams: It very much depends on what the client is trying to achieve. We’d advocate looking at efficient ways of allocating to different betas and alpha where it suits an objective. You might consider that there are some opportunities to come given the current market environment – perhaps local currency emerging market debt, or some parts of the sub-investment grade credit market – and you might want to keep some powder dry for a beta allocation.
But you should only really look to do so if you’re a long-term investor. Trying to time markets over the shorter to medium-term horizon is harder to do. For keeping powder dry in the shorter term you could look at an absolute return type approach which has a lower correlation to market returns.

Christine Farquhar: We’re seeing clients looking at alternatives, not so much alternatives to traditional fixed income, but as some diversification from equities. So, less liquid, direct lending, lock-up strategies. People are more open-minded, but they’re not thinking about these strategies in the fixed income space.

Shaw: If you’re in fixed income in the traditional classes over the long term, you will be lucky to get 3% to 5%. If you’re going to get 5% you have to take a bit of risk. Will 3% really achieve your objective of technical provisions? Probably not, and that’s why we’re seeing people looking at putting an allocation they can still call fixed income into what other people might call an alternative
asset class.

Farquhar: Do they accept that what they’re really capturing is the illiquidity premium? Is that well understood?

Shaw: Well, it’s not that illiquid, because we operate a secondary market.

Mark Cernicky: If high yield bonds are illiquid, indirect lending is going to be less liquid.

Shaw: I think it depends on your type of institutional investor. A pension scheme is looking to wait out to maturity. If you’re locked in for six months or three years, it’s not really relevant to your 20 or 30-year time horizon. If you’re a fixed income fund, and mark to market every day, and get a lot of redemptions, it’s a different matter.

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